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in Environmental Exposures and Health
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Main.InteractAnswer History

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July 07, 2007, at 12:54 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 30-31 from:

+ B/Ei,b

to:

+ B/Ei,b = 1

July 07, 2007, at 12:53 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 5-6 from:

To see why, suppose I tell you that A and B are actually the same compound. The sham combination of A and B is, in fact, just 20 uM of A. The effect of the sham combination is larger than each 10 uM increment separately because the dose-response curve is here concave up (supralinear). Most toxicologists and pharmacologists would not call this synergism.

to:

To see why, suppose I tell you that A and B are actually the same compound. The sham combination of A and B is, in fact, just 20 uM of A. The effect of the sham combination is larger than each 10 uM increment separately because the dose-response curve is here concave up. Most toxicologists and pharmacologists would not call this synergism.

January 02, 2007, at 10:27 PM by twebster -
Added lines 13-35:

Let's examine these ideas mathematically. We'll define

fa[A] = dose response curve for A
fb[B] = dose response curve for B
fab[A,B] = dose response curve for the combination of A and B

Three definitions of additivity are typically used:
effect summation: fab[A,B] = fa[A] + fb[B]

independent action: fab[A,B] = fa[A] + fb[B] + fa[A] fb[B]

concentration addition: A/Ei,a + B/Ei,b

where Ei,a and Ei,b are, respectively, the concentrations of A and B that individually lead to effect level i.

December 30, 2006, at 10:29 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 7-8 from:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that A and B are different compound with B exactly half as potent as A at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

to:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that A and B are different compound with B exactly half as potent as A at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B thus yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of A (applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

Changed lines 11-12 from:

The combination again yields a larger effect than each component by itself. But rather than synergism, we call this additivity of doses, i.e., dose additivity or, as it is more frequently called, concentration additivity.

to:

The combination again yields a larger effect than each component by itself. But rather than synergism, we have a special case of what is called additivity of doses, i.e., dose additivity or, as it is more frequently called, concentration additivity.

December 30, 2006, at 10:26 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 7-8 from:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that A and B are different compound with B is exactly half as potent as A at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

to:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that A and B are different compound with B exactly half as potent as A at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

December 30, 2006, at 10:26 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 7-8 from:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that A and B are different compound and that B is exactly half as potent as A at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

to:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that A and B are different compound with B is exactly half as potent as A at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

December 30, 2006, at 10:25 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 7-8 from:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that and B are different compound and that B is exactly half as potent as A at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

to:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that A and B are different compound and that B is exactly half as potent as A at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

Changed lines 11-12 from:

The combination again yields a larger effect than each component by itself. But rather than synergism, we call this additivity of doses, i.e., dose additivity or, as it is more frequnetly called, concentration additivity.

to:

The combination again yields a larger effect than each component by itself. But rather than synergism, we call this additivity of doses, i.e., dose additivity or, as it is more frequently called, concentration additivity.

December 30, 2006, at 10:25 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 7-8 from:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that"A" and B are different compound and that B is exactly half as potent as A at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

to:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that and B are different compound and that B is exactly half as potent as A at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

December 30, 2006, at 10:25 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 7-8 from:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that"A" and B are different compound and that B is exactly half as potent at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

to:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that"A" and B are different compound and that B is exactly half as potent as A at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

December 30, 2006, at 10:24 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 7-8 from:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that B is a different compound from A such that B is exactly half as potent at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

to:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that"A" and B are different compound and that B is exactly half as potent at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

December 30, 2006, at 10:23 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 5-6 from:

To see why, suppose I tell you that A and B are in fact the same compound. The sham combination of A and B is, in fact, just 20 uM of A. The effect of the sham combination is larger than each 10 uM increment separately because the dose-response curve is here concave up (supralinear). Most toxicologists and pharmacologists would not call this synergism.

to:

To see why, suppose I tell you that A and B are actually the same compound. The sham combination of A and B is, in fact, just 20 uM of A. The effect of the sham combination is larger than each 10 uM increment separately because the dose-response curve is here concave up (supralinear). Most toxicologists and pharmacologists would not call this synergism.

December 30, 2006, at 10:23 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 5-6 from:

But suppose I tell you that A and B are in fact the same compound. The sham combination of A and B is, in fact, just 20 uM of A. The effect of the sham combination is larger than each 10 uM increment separately because the dose-response curve is here concave up (supralinear). Most toxicologists and pharmacologists would not call this synergism.

to:

To see why, suppose I tell you that A and B are in fact the same compound. The sham combination of A and B is, in fact, just 20 uM of A. The effect of the sham combination is larger than each 10 uM increment separately because the dose-response curve is here concave up (supralinear). Most toxicologists and pharmacologists would not call this synergism.

December 30, 2006, at 10:22 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 3-4 from:

The intuitive answer, for most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B produces a larger effect than the individual effects summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is fine; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intuitive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly (perhaps) this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

to:

The intuitive answer, for most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B produces a larger effect than the individual effects summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is fine; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intuitive answer uses the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly (perhaps) this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

December 30, 2006, at 10:21 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 3-4 from:

The intuitive answer, for most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B produces a larger effect than the individual effects summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is fine; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intuitive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly (perhaps) this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

to:

The intuitive answer, for most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B produces a larger effect than the individual effects summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is fine; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intuitive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly (perhaps) this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

December 30, 2006, at 10:20 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 3-4 from:

The intuitive answer, for most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B produces a larger effect than the individual effects summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intuitive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly (perhaps) this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

to:

The intuitive answer, for most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B produces a larger effect than the individual effects summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is fine; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intuitive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly (perhaps) this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

December 30, 2006, at 10:16 PM by twebster -
Added lines 13-14:

Reference: Berenbaum MC: What is synergy? Pharmacol Rev 1989; 41(2):93-141.

December 30, 2006, at 10:12 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 11-12 from:

The combination again yields a larger effect than each component by itself. But rather than synergism, we call this additivity of doses, i.e., dose additivity' or, as it is more frequnetly called, concentration additivity''.

to:

The combination again yields a larger effect than each component by itself. But rather than synergism, we call this additivity of doses, i.e., dose additivity or, as it is more frequnetly called, concentration additivity.

December 30, 2006, at 10:11 PM by twebster -
Deleted lines 4-11:

Let's examine this idea mathematically. We'll define

fa[A] = dose response curve for A
fb[B] = dose response curve for B
fab[A,B] = dose response curve for the combination of A and B

Then effect summation means

fab[A,B] = fa[A] + fb[B]
December 30, 2006, at 10:10 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 15-16 from:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that B is a different compound from A such that B is exactly half as potent at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A", i.e., it is equivalent to applying a TEF (as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

to:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that B is a different compound from A such that B is exactly half as potent at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A" (it is equivalent to applying TEFs as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

Changed lines 19-20 from:

The combination again yields a larger effect than each component by itself. But rather than synergism,

to:

The combination again yields a larger effect than each component by itself. But rather than synergism, we call this additivity of doses, i.e., dose additivity' or, as it is more frequnetly called, concentration additivity''.

December 30, 2006, at 10:07 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 15-16 from:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose that B is a different compound from A such that B is exactly half as potent at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A", i.e., it is equivalent to applying a TEF (as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

to:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose instead that B is a different compound from A such that B is exactly half as potent at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A", i.e., it is equivalent to applying a TEF (as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

December 30, 2006, at 10:07 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 13-14 from:

But suppose I tell you that A and B are in fact the same compound. The sham combination of A and B is, in fact, just 20 uM of A. The effect of the sham combination is larger than each increment separately because the dose-response curve is here concave up (supralinear). Most toxicologists and pharmacologists would not call this synergism.

to:

But suppose I tell you that A and B are in fact the same compound. The sham combination of A and B is, in fact, just 20 uM of A. The effect of the sham combination is larger than each 10 uM increment separately because the dose-response curve is here concave up (supralinear). Most toxicologists and pharmacologists would not call this synergism.

December 30, 2006, at 10:06 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 15-16 from:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose that B is a different compound from A such that B is exactly half as potent at every dose. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalnet to 10 uM of "A", i.e., it is equivalent to applying a TEF (as is done for dioxins).

to:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose that B is a different compound from A such that B is exactly half as potent at every dose, i.e., B acts as if it is a two-fold dilution of A. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalent to 10 uM of "A", i.e., it is equivalent to applying a TEF (as is done for dioxins). The results, shown below, look the same as before.

Added lines 19-20:

The combination again yields a larger effect than each component by itself. But rather than synergism,

December 30, 2006, at 10:01 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 15-16 from:

Maybe you feel tricked.

to:

OK, maybe that seems like cheating. Suppose that B is a different compound from A such that B is exactly half as potent at every dose. Using 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B yield the same results. A combination of 5 uM of A and 10 uM of B is equivalnet to 10 uM of "A", i.e., it is equivalent to applying a TEF (as is done for dioxins).

December 30, 2006, at 09:42 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 13-14 from:

But suppose I tell you that A and B are in fact the same compound. The sham combination of A and B is, in fact, just 20 uM of A. The effect of the sham combination is larger than each increment separately because the dose-response curve is here concave up (supralinear).

to:

But suppose I tell you that A and B are in fact the same compound. The sham combination of A and B is, in fact, just 20 uM of A. The effect of the sham combination is larger than each increment separately because the dose-response curve is here concave up (supralinear). Most toxicologists and pharmacologists would not call this synergism.

Maybe you feel tricked.

December 30, 2006, at 09:40 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 13-14 from:

But suppose I tell you that A and B are in fact the same compound. The sham combinaiton of A and B is, in fact, just 20 uM of A. The effect of the sham combination is larger than each increment separately because the dose-response curve is here concave up (supralinear).

to:

But suppose I tell you that A and B are in fact the same compound. The sham combination of A and B is, in fact, just 20 uM of A. The effect of the sham combination is larger than each increment separately because the dose-response curve is here concave up (supralinear).

December 30, 2006, at 09:40 PM by twebster -
Added lines 13-14:

But suppose I tell you that A and B are in fact the same compound. The sham combinaiton of A and B is, in fact, just 20 uM of A. The effect of the sham combination is larger than each increment separately because the dose-response curve is here concave up (supralinear).

December 30, 2006, at 09:07 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 3-4 from:

The intuitive answer, for most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B produces a larger effect than the individual effects summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intuitive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly, perhaps, this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

to:

The intuitive answer, for most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B produces a larger effect than the individual effects summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intuitive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly (perhaps) this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

December 30, 2006, at 09:07 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 3-4 from:

The intuitive answer, for most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B produces a larger effect than the individual effects summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intutive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly, perhaps, this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

to:

The intuitive answer, for most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B produces a larger effect than the individual effects summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intuitive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly, perhaps, this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

December 30, 2006, at 09:06 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 3-4 from:

The intuitive answer, for most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B is greater than the individual results summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intutive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly, perhaps, this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

to:

The intuitive answer, for most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B produces a larger effect than the individual effects summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intutive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly, perhaps, this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

December 30, 2006, at 09:05 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 3-4 from:

The intuitive answer, foir most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B is greater than the individual results summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intutive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly, perhaps, this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

to:

The intuitive answer, for most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B is greater than the individual results summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intutive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly, perhaps, this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

December 30, 2006, at 09:04 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 6-9 from:
fa[A] = dose response curve for A
fb[B] = dose response curve for B
fab[A,B] = dose response curve for the combination of A and B
to:
fa[A] = dose response curve for A
fb[B] = dose response curve for B
fab[A,B] = dose response curve for the combination of A and B
Changed lines 11-12 from:
fab[A,B] = fa[A] + fb[B]
to:
fab[A,B] = fa[A] + fb[B]
December 30, 2006, at 09:04 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 6-9 from:
fa[A] = dose response curve for A
fb[B] = dose response curve for B
fab[A,B] = dose response curve for the combination of A and B
to:
fa[A] = dose response curve for A
fb[B] = dose response curve for B
fab[A,B] = dose response curve for the combination of A and B
Changed lines 11-12 from:
fab[A,B] = fa[A] + fb[B]
to:
fab[A,B] = fa[A] + fb[B]
December 30, 2006, at 09:03 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 6-9 from:
fA[A] = dose response curve for A
fB[B] = dose response curve for B
fAB[A,B] = dose response curve for the combination of A and B
to:
fa[A] = dose response curve for A
fb[B] = dose response curve for B
fab[A,B] = dose response curve for the combination of A and B
Changed lines 11-12 from:
fAB[A,B] = fA[A] + fB[B]
to:
fab[A,B] = fa[A] + fb[B]
December 30, 2006, at 09:02 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 11-12 from:
fAB[A,B] = fA[A] + fA[A]
to:
fAB[A,B] = fA[A] + fB[B]
December 30, 2006, at 09:02 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 3-5 from:

The intuitive answer, foir most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B is greater than the individual results summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intutive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Let's examine this idea mathematically:

to:

The intuitive answer, foir most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B is greater than the individual results summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intutive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Surprisingly, perhaps, this turns out not to be a very useful way to think about it.

Let's examine this idea mathematically. We'll define

Changed lines 10-11 from:
to:

Then effect summation means

fAB[A,B] = fA[A] + fA[A]
December 30, 2006, at 09:00 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 3-5 from:

The intuitive answer, foir most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B is greater than the individual results summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intutive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation.

to:

The intuitive answer, foir most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B is greater than the individual results summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intutive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation. Let's examine this idea mathematically:

fA[A] = dose response curve for A
fB[B] = dose response curve for B
fAB[A,B] = dose response curve for the combination of A and B

December 30, 2006, at 08:58 PM by twebster -
Changed lines 3-6 from:

Suppose you answer: "synergy, since the combination of A and B is greater than the individual results summed." Mathematically:

   fAB(A,B)

to:

The intuitive answer, foir most people, is synergy, since the combination of A and B is greater than the individual results summed. The definition of synergistic as greater than additive is correct; the issue lies in what we mean by additive. The intutive answer applies the definition of additivity known as effect summation.

December 30, 2006, at 08:52 PM by twebster -
Added lines 3-6:

Suppose you answer: "synergy, since the combination of A and B is greater than the individual results summed." Mathematically:

   fAB(A,B)

December 30, 2006, at 08:51 PM by twebster -
Changed line 3 from:

return to [[Interactions|Interactions]

to:

return to Interactions

December 30, 2006, at 08:51 PM by twebster -
Changed line 3 from:

return to Interaction

to:

return to [[Interactions|Interactions]

December 30, 2006, at 08:50 PM by twebster -
Added lines 1-3:

(:Title Answer:)

return to Interaction

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